mr. bertolini, thank you for being with us. and let me just start by saying, why is the fiscal cliff of such concern to you? i mean, do you -- what's the threat here? >> well, i think the big threat, judy, is that if we go off if fiscal cliff we will see negative g.d.p. in the first quarter. and when you get into a recession, american business, rldwe business, bins to make plans on how to reduce its operating costs. and that ultimately results in fewer jobs. so fewer jobs coupled with a negative g.d.p. ultimately put the economy in the wrong direction. and that's not good for anyone. >> woodruff: at the same time, i'm sure you know there's a body of thought out there that says some of the concern about the fiscal cliff is exaggerated. even if it didn't happen by january 1 that there would still be time to get things worked out that in other words this timetable is not so urgent, really. >> well, i think that's misplaced.